(Removed to protect the guilty. Tsk tsk, on whomever informed you of this falsity.) Will the Eglain the Travel [...] 
I am labelling this number one only because there may be more some day. I cannot think that I will write of any other problem tomorrow, as tomorrow I will begin working on solutions to the problem put forth in this little blog.
We have a problem. We have this glorious epic storyline that takes you throughout Eriador but requires you, at various points, to find others to assist you. This is all well and good when you are a newer game and the majority of the populace is roughly the same level and progressing at roughly the same rate. However, when you are 2+ years removed from launch and looking at the trends and notice that more and more players are abandoning that rich - focal - part of your narrative game, then there is a problem.
First and foremost we are a game driven by story. Your place in that story. How you deal with elements of that story and interact with the story. Our epic is clearly one of the most important facets of our game. Now, few people are continuing on with it post Volume 1, Book 1 and this means that we have a problem that needs a solution.
The Solution? Moments of inspiration. These are the moments when your character digs deep into their reserves and finds something more. Whether this is drawn from the people around them or from their own sense of purpose these are the moments inspiring greatness.
Starting with Volume 1, Book 2 - completely revamped and restructured in the upcoming release on December 1st, the Epic Book series will be getting treatment to identify key moments in your character’s life. These types of moments will allow your character to don the mantle or heroism and fight against far greater odds.
Inspired Greatness does the following for a player:
Increases morale and power significantly, increases in-combat and out-of-combat morale and power regeneration, increases damage output from melee, ranged and tactical sources, increases healing output for all healing skills.
Through this we will be able address the problem highlighted above and apply the solution to all the Books comprising Volume 1 of the story of The Lord of the Rings Online.
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November 4th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
I believe this is a wonderful idea. I do not think there are a lot of people like me that enjoy the story so much. That I am willing to Volume 1, seven times just for the story. It been a long term goal to complete the journey on my remaining five high level characters
Putting a capstone legendary as the reward for completing Volume 2, Books 1 - 6 will keep players wanting to do those Books years from now.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
So we will be able to be inspired to greatness and attempt book fellowship instances solo? We’ll still have the opportunity to attempt them uninspired with a fellowship?
November 4th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Awesome! I haven’t been around (here) much longer than necessary to come to the realization that there’s the possibility of a problem that I may encounter in the future, but it’s VERY heartening to realize that the developers care enough that it’s already being considered and solutions of some sorts are not only being discussed, but implemented. One more step in the evolution of my consideration to move to a lifetime subscription..
November 4th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Awesome! Thank You! This makes me so excited! Now I can actually experience some of the content, more along the lines of what it was originally intended, rather than asking one of the 60s from my kin to walk me through it!
November 4th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
I would have to think that the choice would still be there, perhaps based on if it was an Individual player entering or Fellowship.
Great idea/game mechanic, and if the choice is available (Inspired by Greatness or Normal Fellowship) it should accommodate all play styles and concerns!
Well done Turbine!
Very glad to be part of this game & community
November 4th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Awesome Orion!
In all honesty the “main” sticking points are 2.8, 7.8, 4.8, 8.5. So the obvious solution it to remove all quests that have an 8 in them… I mean usually they are instances after a significant portion of solo play.
In book 2 Its 4.7 5.5 and 6.9.
5.5 is just a bear an takes way to long to finish.
Looking good!
November 4th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
I think this is the wrong approach for a solution to the problem. The easy stick has already been swung very hard at the starting areas. It is so disappointing to go back through the starting areas and have it so easy. I do love the reorganization of the quests and quest hubs, but being so easy just makes leveling a time sync and no challenge and no fun.
Some things need to remain a fellowship, it is a major part of the concept of the lore. This solution calls for a mentoring system with rewards. The key here is to have rewards worth earning. The problem here is just finding the appropriate reward. It can be traits, special skills, destiny points, or equipment. There has to be some rewards that will intice mentors.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
A few brainstormed thoughts:
I like the idea in a selfish, need to get my characters through the epics (stalled at 1.8.1 and 2.4.7) as I am a completion-ist at heart. I hate the idea from a overall game perspective.
Keep the epic difficult, it is an epic quest after all.
Make the epic rewards better, something a player would want to be seen wearing or wielding(full disclosure: old EQ player, where epic items really were epic
)
Scale up the marks of … for Volume I to match the level cap to get people helping others.
Flogging a dead horse here I know but, make the story integral to the game, epic book completion leads to increased radiance for example http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=281368
Love the game and keep up the good work.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Just a suggestion from a non-kinship member, I agree that many of the Epic books are difficult to complete for a lets say “relaxed” player like myself; currently stuck on 5.5 for example. Perhaps a work around would be to have both single OR fellowship instance for each chapter. I.E., Where, upon entering the instance, the player(s)choose which door, hallway, etc to go through. If they are in a fellowship they get to go into one instance, (better loot) or if they are alone they go another direction (less loot, longer, harder, but doable) but… at the end of the instance each player / group would be able to move forward in the Epic quest line.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Lunasea, the problem is that the game population is spread all over Middle-Earth now, not just Eriador like it was before Moria. I want to do these books on all of my characters, but there is RARELY a group running the instances and I’m not a member of a large kin, so I end up having to bypass these quests. They aren’t being played anymore and unless you gave out a significant reward for players that have already done this, too many people will continue to skip these great epic quest lines. I think even giving out a pretty decent reward like they did with the Marks back in SOA, I still don’t think these will be played enough. I like Orion’s thinking.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Looks good to me! I think this has become a serious problem for new players who want to experience the epic book quests. Nobody wants to sit around for hours trying to get a fellowship for one of these, or beg a high level to come help.
I have 5 level 60’s, and my last two guys only did the book that allows you to cross over to east Angmar. With this mechanic in place, I’ll make sure to do these quests on future alts.
I think this has the potential to make for some really fun game play as well. Kind of like the vol 2 session play (forget the book #) where you play the dwarf champ on steriods. It would be awesome if it has a similar kind of epic feel, and is challenging enough to keep it fun.
My only concern is that if wanting to run an on level full fellowship through that the option to run without the buff is available.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
I’d like to echo Lunasea’s sentiments about a mentor system with appropriate rewards.
Ark Guard, look at how many people do the bounties, dare I say the rewards make it so? These bounties bring folks together pretty easily.
Could similar (not necessarily the same) rewards give incentive for mentor type activities, which have a long term payoff in the social building aspects. Still, the scaling to level mentor issue would be there if not addressed.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
As someone who just started playing LoTRO this year I am hugely excited for this! It has been really rough getting a group together, even in my kin, to do the fellowship epics. I really look forward to being able to complete these!
On a side note, I really appreciate how involved with and responsive to the LoTRO community you are, Orion. It is wonderful!
November 4th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
This addresses THE major problem I have had with LOTRO all along. Maybe now I have a shot at completing volume 1. The only drawback: I’ve been stalled out so long at certain places, I can’t even remember what the story is any more. But at least it’s a chance to finish.
Thank you for this.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Lunasea, I think you should perhaps go back and refresh yourself on the lore of the stories from the actual Tolkien-published books. There is not a large focus on fellowship as all of the key events through the books took place in no more than groups of three. Small fellowship, at best. Much was soloed through the books. Your stance is actually counter to that of what was laid out in the stories.
Ark Guard also made a good point in that you can no longer force people to group (especially full fellowship) when so many people are spread so thinly amongst the world. There is not a feasible system in place to force groups of 6 for “old world” quest lines.
This is a good idea, in my opinion. This will let players have the chance to be an “elite” character, the likes of which Aragorn/Strider was when he was fighting Nazgul on Weathertop, or Gandalf when he was fighting the Balrog, or Merry and Eowyn when they were fighting the Witch King. . .or, well, I can go on, but I hope you get the point. This allows the tables to be turned so that we’re not always the “normal” guy fighting the elites. We can finally be on equal standing with the heroes of the lore, even if for but a moment.
Thank you, Orion!
November 4th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
@Ruthelia: Correct, a choice of solo or fellowship.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Now this sounds very interesting!
November 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
This wouldn’t work.This would only seperate the community even more.The only way It would work would be for people who just didn’t want to miss the lore.Would have to be with no XP or very little.And No drops.Not everyone plays for the same reasons also.So there choice to skip something is still there choice.If it were by choice of the player to doit just to see the story then that would be ok.But this encourages solo play.The game is lore driven but it is a lore full of fellowships,freindships and hardships.It may not be easy to find a group all the time,But i have found while questing on my own I quite regularly get to jump into groups for epic lines.On the ones I don’t find groups for I ask in kin and they usually will doit with me.Just don’t fancy the idea of making it solo with great rewards.Also think about the fact that getting into random groups when you can teaches you how to play with various group setups,and how to best use your class to help out .
November 4th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Yep, personally when it comes to the Story line I like all the Solo books best, it’s a convenience thing, I have done full Vol 1 on 3 toons (for the horse:), but honestly I don’t think it’s necessary to have grouping. There are plenty of instances that require grouping for those that like that stuff..and raid content is coming along. It’s great if solo players can at least get through the epic story line IMO.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Actually, there are a number of sticking points that may still be problematic because they have an escort mission component. I recall at least one such quest in Book 13 (Forochel). Solo players may not be able to keep the escort alive. Also - I can’t recall if there are any quests that require separation of mobs, but those would be problematic for solo play as well. Just something that needs to be reviewed all the way through book 1.15.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Looks like you got inspired by “We cannot get out”
Wonderful idea.
Just one question, the “solo” version would allow us to enter with more people? (like 2 people or small fellow?)
As many other people, I duo, please do not make the solo option enforced, allow small fellows too.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
As long as we have a choice. Doing the epic storyline with a group is very satisfying.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
I have a founder account and I normally skip the Book quests because I prefer to solo. I usually go back well after they have gone gray. I would suggest any of the quests that need to be done in a group not take more than 10 minutes to do. I don’t mind grouping for short periods but I don’t like having to commit large periods of time.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
[...] we saw a post from Orion titled Problems and Solutions #1 since he speculates that there may in fact be more problems down the line that he wishes to speak [...]
November 4th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
This sounds like an amazing idea. Having only done volume 1 once, I was always disappointed that I could never get a group to do any of the books on my alts. These changes can’t come soon enough.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
I agree some things should remain as fellowship but the main story line of the game is not one of them. There are raids, 6 man, and 3 man instances for the people that love to group. But everyone should have the opportunity to experience the main story of this game.
Orion, don’t forget about Volume 2. I’m curious when this will go into effect? I assume it won’t make it into SoM in time for launch?
November 4th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Instead of making everything easier…why not just give rewards for helping newer characters out with their fellowship book quests?
For example make daily quests where you can help out at most 5 people in 1 day, each quest you help out with gives a substantial enough amount of gold without causing a breakdown in the economy.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
You have to keep the new players involved in the story as well and not skimp on the games mechanics which means giving them the chance to do fellowships as well and not just make everything soloable.
If you make everything solo, you ruin a good part of the experience of the game ,and if you don’t provide some sort of means for them to complete the fellowships by making it worthwhile for higher levels to come back and do them quests then they also lose out on content they paid for and are not being allowed to experience short of having enough friends to run them thru this stuff.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
This won’t work for me. I still see no reason to go through these long, tedious, boring quest arcs.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
I’d prefer to see an optional buff that scales according to the size of the fellowship, to enable the many regular duos & trio groups out there to complete the quests together.
I’ll also echo lunasea & Jarryd in asking about a mentoring system to offer incentives for higher level players to group with lower levels. Any chance of that kind of thing happening?
November 4th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
@smashkilleat: What you reference in the front is something akin to skirmishes. Skirmishes, however, operate in a complete different game system and would take much longer for implementation.
In the second part, right now these are not plans that we are looking at.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
@macdadg: To each their own.
@Shaddam: Been talked about before - might happen in the future, no guarantees.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Great move IMO. I’ll finally be able to finish Vol 1 without wasting my life away in LFF.
Only issue I can see is if the buff is too strong that you have little to no chance of failure, or if certain classes might need different things from this buff based on the encounter.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
@Orion: About mentoring, just for those of us interested in such an idea, about how hard do you think it would be to implement? I’d probably stop asking about it if I knew it would require some kind of massive overhaul of the game.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
@Smashkilleat:
In my estimation, a significant amount of time and resources would need to be dedicated to that type of system. It would certainly compromise the amount of new content/land that we could provide for a good period of time.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
@Orion: On the other hand, if it’s a more manageable cost-benefit issue, I can attest from a couple years in EQ2 that the mentoring system gets widely used, offers rewards to both high & low levels, promotes camaraderie (always a good thing to have!), and tends to keep older content from getting totally mothballed.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
@Orion: Thanks for reply & sorry for the crosstalk. As for the epic buff idea, I’m very glad that you guys are putting thought into how to keep the old zones & challenges populated. I have 3 60s and have never gone past Book 13 in Vol. 1, and this would almost surely get me back in there.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
I think this is a very good idea. The way things are you’ve got a lot of folks with maxed out characters on the hampster wheels out in Moria and Lothlorien or occasionally hitting raid instances/roleplaying in Bree/PvPing in the Trollshaws.
Lower level characters, by contrast, seem to be a trickle of new players and alts that knock around for a bit in scattered locations but always hit roadblocks trying to follow the main story arc quests. Instead they wander off doing secondary quests.
Seems to me that the happiest players are those where they see other players around so you want to use the epic quests to mainline folks from the newbie zones out to Moria and Lothlorien, where everyone else really is. The difference between just about any location and Moria’s 21st Hall, for example, is huge in terms of population. Only Bree is bigger in PC population but relatively few folks are there for questing.
It’s not so nice having this wonderful story set up for you only to be unable to follow it through. Make it possible and I’ll bet more new players will stick around to see what happens next and the alt-addicted will be that much more motivated on their next incarnation to see it through to 60. Or 65.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Would it be possible to have Marks currently in place work to purchase skirmish points as an incentive since it sounds like the skirmish reward barter system is pretty diverse? Seemed like Marks worked during SoA as an incentive, and don’t work so much anymore because the rewards via the barter for them would either work as a cosmetic only for that toon(the armour sets) or only minimally benefit an alt.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Great idea. Thank you for recognizing this is an issue. I only finished all of volume 1 on two of my 6 toons so very happy.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Does the “Inspired Greatness” also give you greater immunities? If not, I don’t see that making up for a lot of the difficulties that a solo player can face in trying to fight groups of elites as you will find in the book epics. Pretty much you can forget about trying to get off any inductions other than the initial one due to damage causing it to backtrack or cancel. That only leaves instant cast abilities which are usually on long timers…and that’s if you’re not stunned/disarmed/etc. Plus, let’s not forget that a chunk of these are immune/highly resistant to chunks of damage/spells, so you’re limited in what you can use anyways. For example, it wouldn’t be uncommon to have a boss mob and two adds in a room you can’t leave. You can CC and get an ability or two off before the mobs are on you, but eventually you will have multiple mobs on you. In that situation, inductions are useless. Between the interruptions, stuns, disarms and just continuous damage, you won’t be able to get one off in a time that makes any difference. If you use instants, they are usually on high timers and the mobs may be immune to them..especially for things like stuns, slows, etc. In the meantime, the mobs are using half minute stuns, back to back disarms, stacking wounds/poisons/diseases, etc. Oh..and you WILL have the fright affect that further limits your ability to move around. It’s easy for a max level player to die fighting much lower level book elite groups.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
I do hope you find a solution that Turbine can be happy with.
For myself, in the year and a half that I’ve been playing I’ve seen very little story in LOTRO. That is to say very little of the central story line of which you speak. I was very impressed with my first encounters with the story and very moved when my character couldn’t help save the ranger he met when he first appeared in game. But then came the group requirements and the story ground to a complete halt.
I was lucky and joined a small but very good kinship. I was also lucky that several members were leveling alt about my level. So I had groups available to me. However, that luck came with a price. The game had been out for a year when I started so all these players had been through the book quests already, often several times. So while I was able to get the quests completed and I enjoyed grouping with my kin, story wise I never knew where I was, what I was doing or why I was really doing it. And as usually happens, we advanced at different rates and I eventually stopped doing book quests again.
From what I’ve experienced from the starter book quests you guys can certainly write moving stories. But for my play style they have almost never been accessible. I certainly don’t expect Turbine to tailor their game around me, but I though I should at least express what the books quests have been like from my perspective. I have no idea what the answer is to make the quests more accessible to everyone or even if there really is a perfect answer. But I do appreciate that you are at least attempting to come up with one and I certainly wish you the best of luck. I for one would love to experience the book quests for the very first time.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Turbine seems to be doing a good job at making sure those who want an even EASIER game to have it easier. It’s a shame they have completely lost sight of those who prefer a little more challenge (particularly solo level challenge). The only way you can get that is to skip most content on the way to level cap and then see what solo challenge you can find at the cap.
Turbine needs to provide a way for players to slow down their leveling if they so choose, so they can enjoy more challenges for a longer period of time on their way to level cap.
November 4th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
I’m one of those newer players who hasn’t been following the story line because of the need to group. I’m an older player and simply find that having slower reflexes and being less into the game, ie not knowing all the tricks of effective grouping, the jargon and shortcuts makes it less enjoyable for me. Heck, my own daughter quit playing after only one evening playing with dad! So I like the concept and will give it a try. Thanks
November 4th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
[QUOTE=Orion] These types of moments will allow your character to don the mantle or heroism and fight against far greater odds.[/QUOTE]
This solo? No, thank you but no.
What part of “Fellowship” of the Ring do people not understand?
In order to finish the task/quest the Fellowship must rely on and lean on and TRUST each other or the task/quest fails!
This is not a ’solo’ act game, it is supposed to be a fellowship.
We are strongest when we act in unison and not when we go off on our own.
Do you really think that Fordo would have made it to Mt Doom if Sam had not been there? (I like Sam, he is a true hero).
Neither will we make it to Mt Doom or Mordor’s Gates if we do not learn to trust a fellowship of our own.
Just my 2 coppers.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
@Caerylwyn: My favorite character in The Lord of the Rings is Samwise. He is the true hero. In truth, he carried not only the One Ring but Frodo as well. At least in my reading of the story he did and he certainly was the least likely of heroes being that he was as queer as a Baggins!
I do agree about Fellowships being very important. I also know that not everyone wants to join, or cannot, or will not join one so…I have to come up with a compromise.
Hrm, time for another introspective blog.
November 4th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
@Caerylwyn: Better to have these books be soloable, then not have them done at all. Yes, they are meant to be done in a Fellowship, and that option is still available, but this new option opens up a lot of content for people who for whatever reason otherwise can’t or won’t do them. Some people just don’t like to group, others can’t find groups on their schedule, et al.
The point is, Turbine is trying to be inclusive here, to allow all players the ability to see content. It doesn’t hurt anyone else if I (a soloer for the most part) can go back and do the epic line now, or do them as I level with my Alts.
November 5th, 2009 at 12:29 am
I don’t mind this, but I think maybe a bonus to experience should be implemented for each character that completes an epic quest within a fellowship to keep a fair balance to the style of play one wants to appreciate the story.
November 5th, 2009 at 1:16 am
Well I like it. It sounds like more people will be able to get the Epic line done now.
Personally my favorite character in LOTR was Gandalf, (or perhaps the Author LOL) because he was so very overpowered, but wise and restrained.
November 5th, 2009 at 4:55 am
“Fellowship” is the the whole idea…Right?
November 5th, 2009 at 9:24 am
A lot of us have multiple characters that have been through the content several times over. Reasons to continue to make and play new characters from the beginning is what we need and want!
November 5th, 2009 at 11:48 am
To all out there who complain about this..if I look up ‘fellowship’ in a dictionary…I don’t believe it says, to call yourselves a fellowship you must have at least 6 people. Done. I understand both sides of this. People who have some restrictions (self-imposed or community imposed) aught to be able to see the story. I went for over 2 years before I was able to complete Vol. 1 and I am happy that this will work for me. And to those this doesn’t work for? It must be nice to have large groups fall together for you often. Just remember that it doesn’t happen that way for all.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Sorry if anything seemed rude or contentious. I apologize to anyone my statement bothered.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:56 am
BTW guys they have stated on the forums about this.At the relase of Mirkwood the only 2 books that are done is vol 1 books 1 and 2.Orion has several post on the forums about it and says that they will realese more books later .So I wouldn’t count on the whole volume 1 being done for sometime still.And from my understanding there is no plans on doing anything with Vol 2, as the only reason for this being done is the pop in lower areas.Where the higher areas arn’t feeling the same neglect.IMHO they should only do this to book 1, with better rewards for completing it as a group as incentive for still grouping.And Vol 2 should not be touched until well into the next major expansion when the current high end stuff becomes obsolete.I Still think this may actually hurt the game more than it helps.I am all for the mentoring system though.Some great Ideas on general forums.
November 5th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
An inspired solution. This kind of thinking is why I continue to stick with LOTRO 2.5 years in.
November 5th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
I’ve slept on this idea and now have decided I really don’t like it. It’s a down & dirty solution to a problem (idle content) that calls for more refined solutions.
I would much, much rather see modified rewards that encourage people to run the books in fellowships. Perhaps more faction, cosmetic, title rewards, like you talked about in your faction diary, Orion.
The rewards for completing an epic book should be appropriately epic, and should remain useful/desirable to a character regardless of the level cap, imo.
Additionally, it should be more rewarding in itself to join fellowships in SoA. Right now the easiest, most rewarding path in the game is to solo straight up to 60, then start worrying about finding groups for equipment, or to go back & grind deeds, etc. I think this is a shameful waste of the SoA content, so much of which was designed with groups in mind.
My $.02.
November 5th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
While I think this sounds like a nice option and something I will utilize for sheer fun-factor (please make sure it is possible to revisit book instances through reflecting pool and choose to run it in solo “inspired” mode), I still think that the “Mark of …” system itself COULD accomplish 90% of the point of this IF rewards were made worthwhile AND an Official GLFF channel was added.
If all this was in place properly, it would seem completely legit to /fishslap anyone complaining they cannot complete the books.
November 5th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Thank you.
November 5th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Maybe you could get the buff (decreasing as the fellowship reaches the expected size) and, on the other hand, increase the rare drop rate (and xp?) as the fellowship grows.
This way, even if you did it once, you’ll be tempted to try it again to gain nifty stuff (and maybe more xp then what you would receive doing other quests).
I really don’t like the idea of returning doing those quests at level 60: it’s just plain boring to 1-hit kill everything and to not aggro… I would really enjoy a “flashback” system where your level would be scaled down…
There is a lot of possible solutions to the problem, some are just easier than others to implement, but some are just better in a long-term perspective.
Anyway, thanks to Orion to care about it ^_^
November 5th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Interesting!
Yeah, I’d be one of those lvl 60’s who still has 3 books left to do, even Book 5! As a result, the story got a little confused for me, as references are made in later books, to books I haven’t yet completed.
I hope that inspiration carries on to your fellow NPC characters, though. In Book 5, Chapter 5, for example, Gimli keeps dying, and that’s what makes the quest fail. Increased DPS could help, but when Elites are piling out in 3’s…
November 5th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
While I like the mentor idea in general, I don’t like it as a solution for this problem. I don’t care what the rewards are, I simply do not want to have to ask my kinmates to go through Vol x, book y.z for the 100th time.
Orion’s solution sounds fantastic.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
I think this is a wonderful idea, and showcases why I consider LOTRO, and Turbine, to be amongst the very best developers of MMO’s today.
I believe you are on the right track, Orion. Your idea allows maximum flexibility, which is a hallmark of the original SoA. People who find it difficult, or impossible, to find others for this content will be able to approach it on their own, at their own pace. Wonderful!
Others who have the opportunity to group, can still engage (and accomplish) the Epics the originally-intended, old-fashioned way. That is very advanced system design: multiple ways of achievement; multiple paths to victory.
Superb!
November 5th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
@orion”Inspired Greatness does the following for a player:
Increases morale and power significantly, increases in-combat and out-of-combat morale and power regeneration, increases damage output from melee, ranged and tactical sources, increases healing output for all healing skills.
….
Very good idea… of course, the questions remain — When does “inspired greatness” kick in? Can it be invoked at will? How long does it last? What is the cool-down?
That said, a couple of comments on the problem.
I’m a Founder and a member of the Old Timers Guild — one of the larger and “friendlier” Kinships. We do do a lot of “helping” of lower level toons to do the Book Quests. But even with that, I now have 5 lvl 60 toons 2 RKs 1 Hunter and 2 Minstrels and one lvl 30 hunter.With any of them, I’ve never completed Book1- only one toon has made it to Chapter 10. and Chapter4 in Book 2.
… Why?
Probably the number 1 answer is Time. My play schedule is random, which makes it VERY difficult to plan any kind of organized effort.I don’t know when I’ll be on OR for how long at any one time, Frequently its only an hour at a shot one or two days a week. The “Bounty Quests” for level 55s are IDEAL group quests… you can pick up a group and complete all 5 in less than an hour!
The second problem I have is with the “level” issue — even the lowest level “group” book quest (V1.4.8, I think it is — with Legolas) is not possible to complete without one two toons significantly above the level of the quest. The amount of DPS and healing required is beyond the capabilities of the “appropriate level” toons. I just did 1.11 (Osgeroth) for the first time in probably 2 years and was quite surprised to see how much it had been modified. We did it with 3 of us at level 29, and blew through it in what seemed light no time (with a Warden and 2 hunters).
One last comment. I love the Epic Quest Story line. What I would like to see is some mechanism to review the dialogs, especially the beginning and ending dialogs — at my leisure, after the quest is completed. Much the same way as the “cut scenes” can be viewed. Why? Primarily because when I do get in a group, it is with others who have completed the quest before. The ability to read more than a sentence or two of dialog severely slows everyone else down. …one of those things, while no one says anything, you know from when you have to wait yourself for others, how long it is taking and how much it is perturbing the flow of the instance. And you know the others are doing this just to help you along, so you are quite sensitive to disruptive actions.
November 5th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Can we get more specifics about this? I would really rather it be a ‘hope’ boost instead of morale/power though. To me that would make more sense, especially from a lore standpoint, and for us casual gamers that actually like to try the raids just once, but can’t get the rad gear for various reasons (take me, i’m strapped down with a lil one and get only about 2 hrs total a week to play…and usually in 30 minute increments!!! I don’t have time for multiple hard modes in attempts at getting a rad piece…i.e. it took me 17 runs of 16th hall to get mine back when I actually had the time to run them) This would be another way of ‘grinding’ to get rad AND would make doing the epic line attractive…just my 2 cents worth.
November 5th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Thank you for this! It has been one of my great frustrations with this game (perhaps the only one) that I haven’t seen much of the epic storyline. I would like to, but being the parent of a very small child makes grouping difficult and keeps play sessions short (which adds to the grouping difficulty). I have hope that the solution, if it be this or something else you come up with, will allow me to finally see the rest of the epic storyline.
November 5th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
I enjoy the epic quest arc and have been playing catch-up on them with my level 60 Lore-master. However, I’ve had a very difficult time finding fellowships on the group quests - it took me weeks to find a group for 1.15.12 (and am running into the same issue with 2.8.3). Many players are more concerned with radiance gear and legendary items. I’m guessing that the epic quest rewards, while they were great at level 50, are inferior to the level 51+ gear and are just not worth the time and effort to go after them. Rewards or not, I still want to finish the book quests. At least this option gives me the chance to work on them at MY convenience rather than beg constantly for 5 other players who might happen to be on the same quest. For players like me this is a major plus!
November 5th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Thank you so much - I have not been able to complete most of the epic line because it is very difficult for me to play in a full fellowship. I am sure I’m not the only player who has light-triggered migraines; even at the lowest graphics setting the various sparklies coming from each player becomes overwhelming very quickly. It’s good to know that you are working to make the game more playable and enjoyable for ALL of us.
November 5th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
kudos Turbine!
Anything that brings more options to LOTRO is a good thing.
You have time and you want to experience the whole fellowship feeling… go for the fellowship option. Wanna kill 30min and do a nice instance with one of your alts…solo option.
November 5th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Gotta love the kneejerk reaction that the game will be destroyed over a very minor change such as this. I am one of the many who skip most of the storyline, just no time to get groups together and do them. I am all for this change. Wholeheartedly, unabashedly for it, Bravo. The only other sub moria stuff I have ever had an issue with is the level 45 class quests. Those last two items are just no fun to get and suffer from the same drawback as the book quests honestly
November 5th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Ideally, I would like to always have a group of friends who play when I play and group together. But, I haven’t had that experience in a game for a number of years now and I am not certain exactly why. Those good old days of having a close knit group of “always online” in-game friends seems to be gone for good.
So, I became a solo player for the most part, even in games and with classes not always suited for soloing well/efficiently. While it has been frustrating for me, in some games more than others, I learned patience and took my time, progressing my characters in other ways and rolling many alts, taking advantage of rested XP bonuses. etc.
And, now I am playing LOTRO, the community is pleasant, and it might be likely I could find a good group of peeps, but soloing is a hard habit to break.
Tailored in game challenges seem to be a way to a decent compromise, but perhaps improving the dangling carrot for Fellowship level challenges would also have a positive impact.
The main thread of your character’s journey through the story should probably have never had grouping requirements, but that’s hindsight.
November 5th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
*all starry-eyed from looking at Orion* Like the song goes, “I think I love you”…lol..if this is truly a choice between solo-ing Vol. 1 Books, or doing them with a fellowship, then I personally think this is a GREAT solution to a problem a LOT of us real story-line lovers have..all players have a choice which way to go..TY SO MUCH!!!
Looking forward to even more fun, hopefully this will carry on into Vol. 2 etc..again, TY!! I like your idea!!
November 5th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
By the way, I also love Valamr’s idea of making the dialogue available to watch in the clips, same as the cut-scenes..what a neat idea! Would really keep the story line available so you can remember it, & enjoy it more!!
November 5th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Stalled on 2.8.3 myself. I had already resigned myself to missing most of the “End Game” content (which I have) but I basically stopped playing because I couldn’t continue with the epic story line.
This solution may make me start playing again.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
(of course i wouldnt state my idea right…that’s what i get for being so groggy) anyways I’m meaning it should be a perma boost for doing epic line giving it more of an incentive to be completed for ALL chara’s (meaning not just mains, but alts too) which would lead to more people with higher lvl chara’s running them. I do not agree with making epic line solo for the whole way at all (as in there should NEVER be an option for this) the whole theme of LOTRO is working together (i.e. Fellow) what will be next? Super boosts so you can solo raid content because you cant get a group of 12/24??? Geez…want to know what’s REALLY annoying about VOL I??? The fact that you don’t have to go in order of the books…that’s annoying, I shouldn’t be able to do 1.7.1 before I’ve even done 1.4.2…that’s just wrong and seriously irritates me everytime I level an alt
November 5th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
As a player that runs through most content solo, I like this idea very much. I’m intrigued to see how exactly it will play out (a long-cooldown skill, an instance-only ‘mode’), but I’m happy to see that the problem has been recognized and that Turbine plans to do something about it.
Says the level 54 Captain that only started book 5 this week, after languishing for 6+ months in book 4…
November 5th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
I’m really glad you’re addressing this issue. I will be interested to see where this leads.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:31 am
Sounds good, but I think Turbine needs to reinstate the toughness of the horse for the reward for finishing 1.15.12. I have heard that when people heard the reward was made weaker the desire to finish the epic series disappeared. To inspire people to finish vol 1 would be a reward worthwhile in obtaining.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:12 am
First and foremost, thankyou for taking the time to update us on what’s going on behind the scenes. It’s great to know that you’re putting in the effort to reach out to the fan base.
Second, I’ve spent some good time reviewing much of the comments and posts from this blog and there are many points regarding whether these quests should be solo or fellowship in nature.
Well, in light of skirmishes, what if we had hireable mercenaries that we could use for questing; only available to us at your discretion.
I think a challenge should still be imperative so that it not be a mindless cake-walk.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:25 am
I am torn on this issue. I started playing a year and a half ago, ususally only once a week with a dedicated kin working mainly on the Epic quests. We have almost completed Vol. 1 Book 14 and are all lvl 55 or 56. The dynamics of working as a group is important and required and I found that the books provided that environment to learn the story plus polish your skills.
We have found that the reward items for the epic quests were, for the most part, inferior to items that you could craft at that same level as the quest. We found this to be a dsincentive to progress as the rewards were few.
On the flip side, new characters that I have created over time have struggled with getting through a number of the epic quests even starting at Book 2. I can see the need for this and I expect that I will use it once it is there but I think it takes something away from the game at the same time.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now if you can please do this with all the other books as well…. I have stopped doing them, I am in a small kin, cause most of them left…. so doing books is out for me, and time to dedicate myself to a group for them is not feesable for the most part… so I miss the storyline… thank you turbine for thinking of us
soloers…
November 6th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
I am not one of those who is looking for slowing XP, but I just had an idea that might be easy to implement, and has fewer side effects (like forgetting to turn it back on or whatever).
What if it was a food item? Kinda like the food to increase iXP - but this one would cut XP by 50% or something - only lasts an hour or two. That way it is not a setting, there should be no confusion - the player has to initiate it very consiously.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Great solution - especially for dps/healer classes. I’d really like to see other classes get a boost to their speciality.
I can see a couple of theoretically simple ways to implement this:
1. A level override (increase player vs mob differential)
2. A time override (shorter induction, faster skill execution, shorter cooldown).
As a burg, I’d love to have better stealth, or debuffs, or the ability to start a CJ of 3-man or 6-man strength. The two methods above would provide some of this.
Alternately, you could pick one or two signature skills per class and boost them to Greatness.
November 7th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
I’m very inspired by this change, I have stopped playing due to the lack of fellowships for this very reason, the Epic Line. I’ve been over in DDO Unlimited for the last few months but getting this news is exciting for me. Every once in awhile I would get online and take a look around at the beautiful world of LotRO Turbine created but then head back to DDO to play. I now can’t wait to play LotRO again as soon as this is activated. Great job Turbine, I agree to it completely.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:15 am
I am a fairly new player and while my kinfolk (where most have been around since launch) were concerned on how little I have done with the Epic quests, they were not exactly falling over themselves to help me get them done, lol. This seems like a solid solution - a choice- that will help LoTRO keep evolving.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:19 am
As a founder/lifetimer I think this is an idea who’s time has come. Remember people this is about choices, if you still want to run it in a fellowship you can. The people who say this is a bad idea or it will destroy the game are being a little selfish.
This game has always been about the story and for those of us fortunate enough to see it through by being able to get fellowships we shouldn’t deny other people(especially the newer ones) a chance to experience it either. Yes, experiencing it in a fellowship is the IDEAL way, but denying someone a chance of ever hoping to see it is wrong.
This game is all about the story. Everyone, regardless of playing habits, should be able to experience it.
Thanks Orion and good job Turbine.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:33 am
hopefully this will prove a success and allow devs to open other parts of the game to players,the way it is now the bigger raids are not available to most,my own views on this are that to much emphasis is on gated gear to appease hardcore raiders[never sure what that means,i mean i put 6+hrs in every day],who are only about 5-10% of most server populations,so any way to balance out content to allow other players who arent in large kins access is welcomed,and im sure prove a success.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:41 am
I have been playing sins start and am stalled at book 9, only have gotten that far by help from Kin.
I realize there should not need to be incentive to do main story but, I was thinking that an item that grows with players completion of books would be NICE. Something that grows stronger, as we progress through the story.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Why only volume 1? Why is the lack of groupmates their only motivation? I don’t care whether a group is easy to find or not, I’d rather solo it, and if Volume 3 has grouping, then I’m going to be alienated again. This option should be available for all volumes past and present.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
@Aaronomus
Read Orion’s journal entry at top: “Starting with Volume 1, Book 2 - completely revamped and restructured in the upcoming release on December 1st, the Epic Book series will be getting treatment to identify key moments in your character’s life…”
It says they are starting with, that means they will get the to rest eventually as circumstances permit. It will be a time-consuming process and won’t happen overnight. If you want to go the solo route, that’s fine, but you’ve got to have patience for them to get it out.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
I don’t doubt that with time, additional volumes will become soloable, and I can be patient, but I’m speaking of future ones. Will I be able to solo Volume 3 when Mirkwood comes out, or must I wait a year for it to become old news, and essentially remain 2nd class?
Surely it would be easy to ensure new volumes are soloable, as there is no established content that needs to be reworked. However, Turbine has not said anything on the matter as far as I know, and that’s what troubles me.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I like the thought, but aiming for solo is reaching a bit too far in my opinion. Looking at Tolkien for inspiration, most of the adventuring (from Lothlorien forward) is tantamount to small Fellowships.
Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli chasing down the orcs, defending Helm’s Deep, and traversing the Valley of the Dead to relieve Gondor.
Merry and Pippen surviving the orcs and triggering Saruman’s downfall by the Ents.
Gandalf and Pippen in the defense of Gondor.
And of course Frodo and Sam entering Mordor.
The only real solo content after Moria would be Gandalf, with Merry in a small solo role riding to Gondor after joining Theoden.
The gist of this is that the story line quests really should be oriented towards small rather than full Fellowships, as was most of the real adventuring in the books. Tailoring the required group size to three instead of six would increase the chances of getting enough people together to complete the quest, and it would be truer to the spirit of the source material.
November 13th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
this issue is one of the main reasons I quit the game - I was a founder and just quit last month - I couldn’t finish these main quests (and other) part(s) of the game. I work evenings and on a rotating schedule too and as such cannot group(raid) much. It became very frustrating that I couldn’t DO anything - so I quit. Hopefully this idea will catch on and I can come back and actually accomplish something.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Having read about half of the responses to this, I have to say that a lot of players don’t really get it. Offering nice armor or legendaries isn’t going to make me group up to go run these epic instances. And being unable to do a few group instances makes me just ignore the entire epic storyline. I don’t group. And putting candy in front of my face isn’t going to change that. So no, it doesn’t divide the population of the game even more. I am already separate, and so are a lot of soloists. We already DON’T do this content.
However, it IS the epic storyline and I love the whole story of Lord of the Rings. I would like to be able to participate in this content … provided it can be revamped to give the option of solo. I’ve always said “don’t MAKE IT solo - just make soloing it an option.”
So now we have “inspired greatness” for those who want to solo the epic storyline hard points. I love this idea. Those in favor of grouping lose nothing because nothing you can do will make me group with them. And THEY can still do this in its original challenging group mode. I don’t want the challenge when it comes to the epic storyline - if I did, I’d group
Instead I want to experience the story at my own private pace and be able to enjoy it in my own time, and not rushed by a group of players who neither read nor immerse themselves in that kind of content. I don’t need challenge - I need storyline.
In the end, this would still get old. I have seven characters on two accounts, so it would help to have something to drive me to run ALL of my characters through the storyline. That would be a raid-level (non radiance) gear set for the completion of Volume One, and a capstone legendary for the end of Volume Two. Do that, and I will run every one of my characters throug the entire storyline….as long as it really is soloable BY A HUNTER! That’s the most important part of all. Lots of things that are soloable to Guards and Loremasters and Champs are NOT soloable to Hunters.
Thank you for this opportunity, Turbine. It is this kind of innovative thinking that keeps me playing this game and coming back for more.